Curse

CyberNigma · Jun 13, 2009, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

there's a difference between whining and objecting to the fact that there's been a change to a well-established schedule, and not bothering to tell us at least a few hours ahead of time.

holy crap.. now this I really didn't think I'd ever see from the PvP side of Guild Wars. Throughout the game's history any time something is changed on the PvE side of the game and players become upset much of the PvP side has chided them for not being able to accept any kind of change..

heh, welcome to unwanted change. I'm guessing a few of the PvP players aren't as welcome to unwanted change as they seemed to be. That's exactly what people called whining when it happened on the PvE side of the house.

a word of advice, adapt and overcome - change is good for you.. maybe they'll surprise you with an update.

my guess is the non-scrubs on the PvP side probably aren't complaining and are probably even adapting to not having the regularly scheduled skill balance. Another guess is that even if the skill balance happens near the end of this month's automated tourney, the good PvPers will still have adapted to the situation as they always have in the past.. just a guess though.

btw, I don't mean this as any kind of attack towards you. You just provided a good quote in relation to the subject at hand for people to take into context.

PvE Side: the expected norm is no change, a change to the content throws some people out of shape

PvP Side: the expected norm is a fairly consistenty scheduled skill shakeup, a change to the schedule throws some people out of shape

guess there's no win for ANet after all...

Toxic OnyX · Jun 13, 2009, 06:37 AM // 06:37

let's clear this one up

Quote:

Content Updates

Content updates will be done separately from the monthly maintenance and occur every three to four months. By spacing out our content releases, we gain the time to tackle larger and more difficult projects that, previously, would've been impossible. Some features that once seemed unattainable are now being explored as upcoming projects. We are even expanding the Live Team to offer more of the best quality support and content that we can for Guild Wars. With this new system, we release our new content in fewer yet more substantial updates. We want players to feel connected to what we are developing even though it may be months away from release, so during development we will be more open about our process and what we are working on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

We actually didn't say that the content updates would be quarterly. The community just assumed that they would be...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

I think there is a misunderstanding about what "quarterly" actually means.

If you break the year up into four parts (quarters) this is what you have:

First Quarter of the year: January - March
Second Quarter of the year: April - June
Third Quarter of the year: July - September
Fourth Quarter of the year: October - December

Content updates every 3 - 4 months is not necessarily the same thing as quarterly.

The April content update actually arrived within the Second Quarter of the year. If we said we would do "quarterly" content updates, then we just missed the First Quarter.

What is it you are actually trying to say Regina? your dev's said the content updates would be released every 3-4 months, so by definition is the content was released in APRIL then the next update IS due before the end of August.

your post says that no one mentioned quarterly and that the community perceived quarterly updates, then you begin to talk about perceived as missed the first quarter.

I along with a lot of others took 3-4 months to be 3-4 months... nothing else, howveer gien the statement in the first quote we would assume that as
"We want players to feel connected to what we are developing even though it may be months away from release, so during development we will be more open about our process and what we are working on." that some information would be released and being discussed by now, strange that we are 1-2 months away for the supposedly guaranteed content update and not one word has been mentioned about it.

so...

Yet again we come back to the problem of the past 12+months communication the communication from A-net to is community/playerbase is extraordinarily poor for a company who's business actually relies on the playerbase having a clue what is going on to retain its faith in the company and its interest in its product.

after reading regina's replies and martin's to earlier posts I can only conclude that nothing is likely to change, they both ignored the majority of the content and provided comments on the more trivial matters.

let's also clear one thing up 100% as it is a comment that has stuck in my craw since I read it...

Martin & Regina, please read this, take heed and pass this back to whomever you report to

COMMUNITY

this is not as clearly defined as your playerbase, it is dfined as the core of players whom care about the game enough to register to fansites and forums to discuss aspects of the game.

these are the people that CR team should be paying attention to as these are the people that post problems, feedback, queries, bugs, exploits etc...

not just on this site but on other sites and as has been mentioned a few times, the comments made here have been made at a number of other sites, yet you both seem to sit in this bubble of ignorance unaware of the issues raised.

When players are commenting on BASIC problems such as skills that actually break the game mechanic to the point of being an exploit and have been talking about these for over 6 months with near zero feedback from devs or CR it points out the biggest flaws in a-net, these are simply comunication and priority as a company you lack greatly in both areas.

Despite what I wrote at the top of the post (which was more to point out a-nets woeful and contradictory communication) I would willing do without content until next year on the proviso that all efforts were made to actually rebalance the game as a whole rather than the half-assed attempts of the past 12months+ no just PvE but PvP also.

I would think with the releases of your parent company around the corner, blizzards releases coming soon that your company would be 100% commited to trying to retain is existing playerbase for your new product, if this is your goal then you are going a very strange way about it as faith in a-net by the community as a whole (not just here) is just about at an all-time low.

reaper with no name · Jun 13, 2009, 07:08 AM // 07:08

I think the problem lies in the fact that as a business, it is really hard to get things done because there are so many people involved, so much stuff to do (much of it not actually involving content or balance, but bugs and fixing bugs in stuff that is not yet implemented).

Let's assume that the guys who actually give us the updates want to do more PvE balancing, because they realize SF is horribly, horribly broken and makes general PvE a joke. So, they're getting ready to fix it, and their boss comes looking over their shoulder and says "why are you wasting your time doing that? No one cares about that. What they care about are more content updates!"

"Well, actually, the players on this forum and this forum and..."

"They only represent one portion of the community. Trust me. Now get back to work on that new pokemon center. People will use pets more if we make that."

And SF remains broken.

Or, what if one person along the chain of bureaucracy doesn't like the proposed change? To continue the SF example:

"Wait, you want to nerf SF? Didn't we already do that?"

"Yeah, but it's still not enough. We didn't address the real problem; it's maintainability. The game is still a cakewalk because nothing can kill you."

"But you're doing less damage! You're giving something up for that invulnerability! And touch skills can still hurt you."

"How many monsters have touch skills?"

And it goes on and on.

And this is just the stuff I can come up with off the top of my head. I don't think it's right to expect Anet to be able to update as smoothly as a single person with sufficient knowledge of the source code would be able to, because Anet is not one person; it is a business, and businesses are slow. I do think, however, that it isn't an excuse for them to not at least try to do the things that need to be done.

Red Sonya · Jun 13, 2009, 07:48 AM // 07:48

They took down the decorations, no more keg farming , coin rewards nerfed in HB YAY YAHOO YABA DABA DOOOOOOO now this is my kinda update. Welp go find yourself another place to exploit the game FARMERS...keg farming is now officially dead and ROJ is next and hopefully ShadowForm as well since they nerfed the hell out of Dervish FORMS then Shadowform should be next with a 120 sec cooldown period.

faraaz · Jun 13, 2009, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Shadowform should be next with a 120 sec cooldown period.

A Warrior can dream...

wetwillyhip · Jun 13, 2009, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic OnyX

let's clear this one up

What is it you are actually trying to say Regina? your dev's said the content updates would be released every 3-4 months, so by definition is the content was released in APRIL then the next update IS due before the end of August.

your post says that no one mentioned quarterly and that the community perceived quarterly updates, then you begin to talk about perceived as missed the first quarter.

I along with a lot of others took 3-4 months to be 3-4 months... nothing else, howveer gien the statement in the first quote we would assume that as
"We want players to feel connected to what we are developing even though it may be months away from release, so during development we will be more open about our process and what we are working on." that some information would be released and being discussed by now, strange that we are 1-2 months away for the supposedly guaranteed content update and not one word has been mentioned about it.

so...

Yet again we come back to the problem of the past 12+months communication the communication from A-net to is community/playerbase is extraordinarily poor for a company who's business actually relies on the playerbase having a clue what is going on to retain its faith in the company and its interest in its product.

after reading regina's replies and martin's to earlier posts I can only conclude that nothing is likely to change, they both ignored the majority of the content and provided comments on the more trivial matters.

let's also clear one thing up 100% as it is a comment that has stuck in my craw since I read it...

Martin & Regina, please read this, take heed and pass this back to whomever you report to

COMMUNITY

this is not as clearly defined as your playerbase, it is dfined as the core of players whom care about the game enough to register to fansites and forums to discuss aspects of the game.

these are the people that CR team should be paying attention to as these are the people that post problems, feedback, queries, bugs, exploits etc...

not just on this site but on other sites and as has been mentioned a few times, the comments made here have been made at a number of other sites, yet you both seem to sit in this bubble of ignorance unaware of the issues raised.

When players are commenting on BASIC problems such as skills that actually break the game mechanic to the point of being an exploit and have been talking about these for over 6 months with near zero feedback from devs or CR it points out the biggest flaws in a-net, these are simply comunication and priority as a company you lack greatly in both areas.

Despite what I wrote at the top of the post (which was more to point out a-nets woeful and contradictory communication) I would willing do without content until next year on the proviso that all efforts were made to actually rebalance the game as a whole rather than the half-assed attempts of the past 12months+ no just PvE but PvP also.

I would think with the releases of your parent company around the corner, blizzards releases coming soon that your company would be 100% commited to trying to retain is existing playerbase for your new product, if this is your goal then you are going a very strange way about it as faith in a-net by the community as a whole (not just here) is just about at an all-time low.

I completely agree 100%, nothing more nothing less. To add to this...

first arenanet pushes April's skill balance back a month... then they push it back a week, then they push it back another week... to my accurate knowledge, skill updates come out the 1st-2nd thursday of every month... to tell us one thing and do another with such late notice is one thing.. but to do this exact process 3 times in a row is beyond frustrating. Anet has a way of convincing the community and telling them that updates will happen not this week but next... yes.. next.. then it doesn't happen...then the loop plays on and on. Regardless of how game companies are likes this, there is no justification when you say one thing and do another with late notice many many times. I have been playing gws just after the beta and I am so done with this lack of communication, these late notices, and contradictory statements. I am not feeling more connected to what arenanet is doing with these 3-4 month content updates since i don't get jack on news of the update, and now I'm not getting jack on skill updates with late notices, i'm feeling more disconnected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra View Post
We actually didn't say that the content updates would be quarterly. The community just assumed that they would be...
http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/de...ttractions.php
Quote:
Originally Posted by Content updates
Content updates will be done separately from the monthly maintenance and occur every three to four months. By spacing out our content releases, we gain the time to tackle larger and more difficult projects that, previously, would've been impossible. Some features that once seemed unattainable are now being explored as upcoming projects. We are even expanding the Live Team to offer more of the best quality support and content that we can for Guild Wars. With this new system, we release our new content in fewer yet more substantial updates. We want players to feel connected to what we are developing even though it may be months away from release, so during development we will be more open about our process and what we are working on.

Oh and thanks Regina for the contradictory statement.

Capulatio · Jun 13, 2009, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Guys don't you get it? It can happen any time during the 3-4 months.

April was our last content update therfore that means the next one can be any time between April and August. We can't complain because that is actually what was said from the start and we are just being impatient! The game works as it is, just play it and stop complaining. Afterall the Live Team have lots of work to do because even a minor change takes a hell of alot of time to incorporate into the game as the game is so big.

I am going to get flamed for this I know, but I think you should all take a step back and look at the brilliant game we have already.

Raccoon · Jun 13, 2009, 10:29 AM // 10:29

...Whoa so let me get this straight....

You nerf'd Keg farming yet didn't touch shadow form...

...Does the Anet team even play this game?

Meridon · Jun 13, 2009, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

Im guessing that unless you are taking multiple inheritance to extremes either all of those things you mentioned are part of the one community or else they are all different communities all referred to as the community (aka I'm Spartacus). I'm not sure which you meant. It's kinda like me saying that I am the human race when I'm part of the human race. In other words, all of those things are part of the big overall community and they all have to be considered in the proper scope - which appears to be what they are telling everyone.

I imagine a lot of people would be pissed off if ArenaNet started believing that I, personally, was the Guild Wars community and balanced solely on my feedback.

one more

sorry, wanted to at least match the number of bolds in the quoted text..

I was indeed questioning the definition of "the community" in this case, after Martin replied to another poster that Guru isn't the community and that this poster's isn't speaking for what he calls "the community".

The problem here is that it is pretty much impossible to define what the entire "community" really is. How big is it? What forums other than guru belong to it? One can't possibly name everyone who is part of it. As a result, it's also nearly impossible to define what "the community" wants. All we really know about what the community is, is that it's people who play Guild Wars and the only visible aspect of it comes to forums like these.

As a result, saying that Guru is just part of the one big Guild Wars community is not well defined as it's impossible to define all the people that are part of the community. If we reject the idea that the community as a whole can be defined, then that only leaves us with fragments of what we ourselves can observe as part of the community. Therefore, any part of the undefinable total community, is in fact the community.

The way I wrote my earlier post was also a sign indeed that every part of the community indeed has just as much right to be part of the community, and therefore the statement "You are not the community" is in my opinion false. I am the community just as much as you are. Nobody is the center of it of course, however, we are all just as much (part of) the community.

Finally, about the bold text parts, those were because in Martin's original post he bolded the community multiple times to make his point, so I thought i'd do the same to make mine

I think we're pretty much on the same page, it's however hard/impossible to define "the community".

Regards,

Meridon

Cab Tastic · Jun 13, 2009, 10:40 AM // 10:40

I have to say I find that the customer relations team come across as very aggressive.

Yes, we appreciate that delays can happen in a game of this size but surely to come on here and say we are not important is crazy. I am sure to the CR team the posters on this forum come across as impatient brats who know nothing about what's involved in the update process, but that is not the point.

We are your customers and you are supposed to "relate" to us. If Anet mess up, as they have, come here, apologise and explain, do not insult us.

faraaz · Jun 13, 2009, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

I have to say I find that the customer relations team come across as very aggressive.

Yes, we appreciate that delays can happen in a game of this size but surely to come on here and say we are not important is crazy. I am sure to the CR team the posters on this forum come across as impatient brats who know nothing about what's involved in the update process, but that is not the point.

We are your customers and you are supposed to "relate" to us. If Anet mess up, as they have, come here, apologise and explain, do not insult us.

Well, from their perspective, we have already purchased the game, the game is free to play. They dont have to placate us anymore as GW is being run by a skeleton crew till GW2 comes out (*cough*vaporware*cough*), so their attitude is perfectly understandable, if not preferable.

Kendel · Jun 13, 2009, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

I have to say I find that the customer relations team come across as very aggressive.

Yes, we appreciate that delays can happen in a game of this size but surely to come on here and say we are not important is crazy. I am sure to the CR team the posters on this forum come across as impatient brats who know nothing about what's involved in the update process, but that is not the point.

We are your customers and you are supposed to "relate" to us. If Anet mess up, as they have, come here, apologise and explain, do not insult us.

It doesn't exactly help that they rarely come to say something without being provoked by a large majority of pissed of players.

Its like prot, they could (pre-prot) come here when there clearly will be a problem, like the delayed update, and at least warn people. Or they do it completely wrong and come here AFTER the damage has been done and end up having to work twice as hard to calm people down. Course its been happening so much recently the community is getting sick of the bullcrap excuses.

Esprit · Jun 13, 2009, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Hope Anet makes the smart decision about 'fixing' RoJ by balancing the Bombers too, because as soon as RoJ changes, Bombers will be back in full force. It's no fun babysitting a shrine to stop one Bomber. Not getting my hopes up though.

HawkofStorms · Jun 13, 2009, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

Well, from their perspective, we have already purchased the game, the game is free to play. They dont have to placate us anymore as GW is being run by a skeleton crew till GW2 comes out (*cough*vaporware*cough*), so their attitude is perfectly understandable, if not preferable.

Agreed. In fact, for the last 6 months a.net's PR team has been VERY laid back, and basically taken all the crap in stride (from the GW2 is vaporwear crowd, to the same 8-10 people who complain about where is my skill balance every month ((because even after there is a skill balance, its never good enough for these people)). Their behavior in this thread is a complete 180.
I'm glad to see them stand up behind their product again rather then let those negative people take over the hearts and minds of their consumers. They are on damage control, trying to make people listen to them instead of some 16 year-olds who have too much angst over a video game.

MrDark88 · Jun 13, 2009, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Martin never said that Guru is not part of the community, he only said the Guru is not the whole community, meaning that this is not the only source of feedback for them. Yet, people seem inclined to say he said that Guru is unimportant.

crazy diamond · Jun 13, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

...Whoa so let me get this straight....

You nerf'd Keg farming yet didn't touch shadow form...

...Does the Anet team even play this game?

Yes, because that is what the community(not just Guru) was clamoring for. Or did you miss all those threads complaining about kegs? They were there, seriously. The folks complaining about Shadowform are a very small vocal minority. You may not have been paying attention, but ANet was!

ThomOfDeath · Jun 13, 2009, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

Yes, because that is what the community(not just Guru) was clamoring for. Or did you miss all those threads complaining about kegs? They were there, seriously. The folks complaining about Shadowform are a very small vocal minority. You may not have been paying attention, but ANet was!

I don't think you should change Shadow Form again, but skills used very much in UWSC and FOWSC, like Sliver Armor or Ebon Battle Standard of Honor?

crazy diamond · Jun 13, 2009, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomOfDeath

I don't think you should change Shadow Form again, but skills used very much in UWSC and FOWSC, like Sliver Armor or Ebon Battle Standard of Honor?

I'm sure ANet is on the case. Have a little faith will you?

Yang Whirlwind · Jun 13, 2009, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

*Budger Blackpowder will now wait a few seconds between dispensing Powder Kegs in Explorable Areas.

Guess we can take the Vaettirs of the endangered species list

Poor Raptors - they will be massacred in even larger numbers (again) now.

Solo farm is still mostly for sins, but the pace have been slowed a little. *shrugs* - whatever!

AydenQuinn · Jun 13, 2009, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by esthetic

Well people like you would not spend a single dollar beyond the price of the single campaign you purchased a few years back so you may feel your opinion is correct when it comes to your particular situation. You spent a few bucks and play the game 24/7 you feel like you got your moneys worth already and so dont expect more or complain. Now right or wrong, some of us actually spent more money than you on this game, and thus have some greater expectations. And I do say that some of us know that we will be spending more money on this game in the future.

And you think ANet is paying people to man community relations and do content updates cause they are just nice people? You are naive son. This is a business they are in it to make money.. your money. They do need to keep you me and the rest of us generally happy so we give them MORE money.

It may not seem like it to you, but everything they do is to make money. Please do not be fooled, people at ANet are not just working just to be nice to you. They all get paid money, money that comes from us.

First off, I'm kinda curious how you know how much he's spent on the game since you're fairly confident that you've spent more. That whole part of your response smacks of elitist b*****t.

Secondly, it doesn't matter if you bought one campaign cheap for $10 or you own the whole set and have spent money to buy pet packs, skill packs, etc - you're not entitled to anything beyond what ever it was you spent your money specifically on. You spent that extra money of your own volition. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think ANet had something in the fine print that says "If you spend X amount of dollars on this game we promise to always release skill updates the 1st or 2nd Thursday of the month and we promise to always fix the problems you want fixed, etc".

I like playing the game, and I'm happy when they update and give us newer things to do or do a skills update, even when a majority of the skills updates lately have been purely window dressing. Hell, I enjoy getting on every Monday and finding the new location of Nicholas and the Professor. When they don't, I move on with my life and either play the old stuff more or find an alternate means of entertainment. I survive.

Growing up playing games like Super Mario Bros. and The Legend of Zelda, games where there were no content updates or expansions, you had a finite amount of content, and it was fine. I'm thrilled to play a game now where the world does expand from time to time, giving me new things to do, but I see that as a bonus, not as something I demand for a game that I play for free on their servers. I think it's cool as hell that ANet cares enough about the consumers to have some of their people spend time here in the 'Community' finding out the pulse of (some of) the playerbase and communicating with us. It's not something they *have* to do. The way a lot of people respond to them on this thread, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't do it in the future.